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jsteifel
40 Posts |
 Posted - 09/20/2005 : 8:20:55 PM
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I've been hanging on to this. Its time to get it out and spark debate over what to do.
I have only put down generalized reasons. At the EOS meeting I will relay a couple of ideas thoughts that I received.
We probably should do this discussion on ESL talk to document it properly... So I am putting this there too.
Respondents 13
Reason Number
Moved Away 1
Family and/or kids 5
Location / Travel / Cost 4
Too serious / No Fun 2
Poor sportsmanship 1
Cost of competitive planes 2
Timers 2
Skegs/Moldies 1
Priorities / other interests 3
Complexity of planes and
time needed to trim them.
Lack of instructions on triming 1
Too Many Contests 1
Eye Sight 1
Jeff Steifel |
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jsteifel
40 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 08:45:00 AM
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Timers... that meant a lack of timers
Jeff Steifel |
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Anker
83 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 10:45:55 AM
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I think the answer is established by some facts:
CRRC is one of the most active clubs in the ESL, both in terms of the number of fliers at the field on any given weekend, but also in terms of participation in ESL contests. So what are the underlying reasons:
A) It is not that we have a fantastic field. It is less than ideal, and we have to share it with users who have priority over us.
B) We do have a couple of individuals who have work constantly, tirelessly and for a very long time to make both happen: Fritz Bien has worked very hard to encourage CRRC members to take up soaring, advance their skills, and participate in both CRRC contests and go to other ESL contests. Dick Williamson works very hard to recruit non-fliers into CRRC and into soaring.
C) In spite of being the hardest contest for most ESL members to get to, this years CRRC Soar-In was one of the biggest contests in the ESL.
I was recruited into soaring in the late 80's by Fritz, who lent me his OLY II and talked me into participating in the CRRC Soar-In with no prior glider practice. I had a ball and was hooked.
Having a group that car pools to contests is absolutely necessary. I would not be an active ESL participant if there were no other CRRC participants.
I think the following needs to happen:
Each club needs to have one or more champions who work actively and constantly to recruit members to their club and to the ESL.
ESL also needs someone who takes the same role at the ESL level.
Finally, we do have to ensure that the ESL provides the type and class of contests that are worth the "trouble" and money that we invest in them.
Anker |
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gldrgidr
22 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 12:49:01 PM
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ADD to the list.
A big reason for the low turnout is that most interest now is in electrics. A lot of formerly TD clubs are now composed of mostly electric flyers. This makes it difficult to get people to help organize local TD contest. Without the local contest you lose the source for new ESL contestants.
The problem with adding more classes is that you can add 5 more classes to make sure everyone gets a trouphy but then what's the value of a trouphy?
A two meter RES beginners class might work but the two meter Allegro-lite's would dominate. |
Edited by - gldrgidr on 09/21/2005 1:02:55 PM |
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jsteifel
40 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 1:24:19 PM
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I would have to agree on both accounts. I know that one club I belong to doesn't do much soaring anymore they are primarily electric. They were solely soaring a few years ago.
I also agree on the classes. Another club I belong to had the masters, expert and sportmen. And then it became a matter of the expert class being dominated. Then sportsman who really should be sportsman were moved up to expert. And some experts who should be masters stayed at expert... So it starts getting muddy.
I never went to a contest thinking if I didn't win I would quit. It wasn't about the trophy. It was about the fun, measuring my skill against the best, and getting better. It is also about the people. I miss control line for the barbecues at the hosting sites homes.. That was always great. It brought us together.
On the west Coast it was Daryl or Joe... and they wore a target... It's kind of fun trying to take down Goliath. Tom wears that target here on the EAST Coast... And to tell you the truth it is tough, nearly impossible to beat Tom, but he is human, and he has his bad days too. And it is fun to try. And Tom is a great sport about it.
To water down the classes doesn't solve the problem.. it only moves it around for a while. Go for the fun, to take a chance, to learn, to get better. The more you compete the more your skills go up. You have to make your time... If you sports fly you don't have to make your time.
Jeff Steifel |
Edited by - jsteifel on 09/21/2005 1:25:32 PM |
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Bruce
4 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 3:04:58 PM
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I agree with Jeff. I do go to contests to win, but my chances
are VERY slim in expert class. I am actually having more fun
now that the pressure to move up from Sportmans is gone. I do the best I can and if I improve in a contest I feel that is a good enough
prize for me. The time spent with fellow flyers, the ribbing,
and help we get from each other is also the reward of an ESL contest.
When I fly against Tom, and other world class flyers I really feel honored and not intimidated.
Also the weekend is a mini vacation.
It doesn't get much better than that,
--Bruce
PS - Everyone - get real - this is all for fun!!! |
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jebbushell
1 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 3:21:07 PM
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I moved away but I had already quit and here is why:
I practiced landing almost every day, 20 a day maybe. I got good and started to place. Then landing points were reduced and I lost ground. I never liked comps where you had to think while flying. I think for money and by the weekend I'm thunked out.
I started to design and build my own stuff. Vac bagging and all of that. When it didn't fly well I became discouraged.
I was spending about $2000 a year before I got the bagging habit. That includes contest fees and hotel bills. I know because I filed the receipts. When the IT job market cratered I was too broke to continue.
And then I was emotionally able to move away. Believe it or not, the ESL was one of the ties that bound me. (We don't have kids, see.)
On the basis of my story I think the following points might be worth the bandwidth:
A) All rule changes have downsides and that they need to be very carefully considered. There are always losers whenever a change is made. Rules need to be stable.
B) The $2000 per year cost of competing with a decent plane like a Mantis is more than many family men can afford, never mind the time fiddling at home and then the time away from home.
C) Long flights favor the young who have good eyes and stamina but, if they have families, the young are the least able to afford the time and the money to get to comps. So old guys, who could turn up in numbers, consistently lose to unattached young guys.
D) The economic "recovery" in the US since 2000 has largely been jobless. When I finally got a job it was at about 60% of my previous wage. Could the economy be a factor? Obviously, it was for me.
E) Technological innovations are also disruptive. I'd love an Ava and a Supra. With one of them I coulda beena contenda...
Hope you all figure this out. As an encouragement, consider Croquet. Always a minority interest, it has been out of fashion since WW2 and surely must rate as even more goofy than toy planes. But is still played by enthusiasts all over the world.
I'm jobless again now, but this time by my own hand and back in my home town with some support. Hopefully next year I'll be flying again. Some truly great slopes here.
All the best. We had good times.
Jeb. |
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aeajr
477 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 4:52:01 PM
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This is a composit of e-mail sent earlier, but I was asked to repost here to get it into the discussion stream on the web site.
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Interesting mix of reasons for low turnout. One of them was mine.
If you look at these responses as relating to either cost of planes or intensity of competition, you have 6 of 13 saying that things have gotten too expensive and/or too serious.
Too serious / No Fun 2
Cost of competitive planes 2
Complexity of planes and time needed to trim them. Lack of instructions on trimming 1
Skegs/Moldies 1
Maybe it is time to bring back a 2M RES class. Perhaps even make it a woodie only, or something like that. Let the new guys flying the Gentle Ladies, Spirits, Sig Risers, Aspires, foamy RES sailplanes join in. They can have some fun and get a first taste of competition outside of a club contest.
Maybe even include hi-start launches as an option, but not a restriction. I realize hi-starts are a bit messy on the field so it could be a logistical nigtmare, but worth a thought.
I know I almost didn't enter the first time because I was flying a 2M Sagitta 600 RES and could not launch off the winch myself. I had to have someone else launch me, so all day I had to ask for a launch. Everyone was great, but still, I felt unqualified in skills and equipment, but I competed anyway.
You might not draw a lot of people across sites, but it could be popular at the host sites and it would be a great first competition class for the local club fliers to enter, beyond the club contests, and that is how you get folks interested.
Today, when you are up against 3M moldies that cost over $700 to put into the air and are flown on $500 radios, these newer guys are embarrassed to even be in the sky. Only fools like me will enter with a restored Sagitta 600 RES or an old restored Legend and launch it next to a Mantis or a Supra, and the like. This RES class is your feed group for the higher classes. This also lets the experienced guys who are not willing to go into serious $$ for the serious competition planes come back into the fun. This is like when they put all the pro drivers in identical cars. Suddenly it isn't the car that that makes the difference, it is all the driver.
Wood and foam 2M RES. No Avas, no 2M Mantis, simple planes that anyone could buy and fly. The experts, should they decide to fly, will still win with a Gentle Lady or a Spirit, but at least the others don't feel out equipped and beaten before they ever get to the winch.
Just a thought. RES has had a resurgence. Consider this the ESL farm team effort.
Best regards,
Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums
Long Island Silent Flyers |
Edited by - aeajr on 09/21/2005 5:21:53 PM |
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F3jeb
103 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 7:02:11 PM
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By reading this you can see some clear pilot patterns and trends.
1. One time pilots or “local”: they only fly one ESL contest, theirs
2. Lack of new pilots: fewer new pilots are taking up sailplanes
3. Lost veteran pilots: season pilots are not flying as often in the ESL contests
I think many of the suggestions or claims would fall under one of these categories. Each group has their own reason for not flying, and we are feeling the effect. I have read this is happening in other online venues as well.
Gldrgidr suggest we are loosing pilots to Electric, probably, new pilots who never find the interest for flying sailplane since they are turned to electric and some old timers who don’t want the hassle and switch. We would have to find out quantitative ether through the AMA, local clubs and soaring groups what the percentages where. If we are loosing a large number to Electric, then ether they would have to be “converted” or the ESL would have to change. We could explore the possibility of sponsoring Electric soaring contest.
I think those local pilots who don’t fly more than one contest (their own) is a demographic that always been there, and we are not going to change them, but as it was suggested, we can work on encouraging them to come out and participate locally, I think this is one of the things it happens with the CRRC Soar-in, it always appears to have the largest group of “local” flyers, local I mean VT, CT, ME, NY, MA for many this is the only ESL contest they fly.
Some as veteran pilots we go to the field on weekends and fall into the same pattern… We assemble our chairs, and then our planes, sit, chat and fly… If we like to get better, we need to practice those things that need improvement. If you are an expert and feel in a bit of a rut, ask Tom, Mike, Josh (and others) don’t say “fix me” but wait for the right time, and ask specific questions, they will tell you.
As for the ships, we have very competitive sailplanes at affordable prices, for what you pay to fly a moldie you can buy two Mantis fuse/wing combo. And is only going to get better, I understand there is a Supra wing coming out, Mike is selling the pods and I am sure Terry will have something and I don’t anticipate these prices going up at the same rate as gas, still traveling expenses will take up most of the budget. As Jeb mentioned above, it cost about $2000 per year to be competitive in the ESL, so the plain is not the problem. The guy who doesn’t make a $600 investment in a sailplane is not going to make $2000 a year commitment with a Spirit 100, they probably fall into the “local” ESL pilot, and there is nothing wrong with that because they still are an important part of the ESL.
I guess in the short term we could try a few things, how about a TD clinic at one of the contest? and see how it goes. We could publish some articles on best practices for off season reading and spring training. Anker wrote an article on launching which was interesting.
I checked our database, and we have roughly 300 members in the ESL, 13 answer Jeff’s informal survey and about 100 are reading this thread, and 9 have posted to this thread, there could be more participation.
Jose
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Edited by - F3jeb on 09/22/2005 10:26:36 AM |
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BobM
2 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 12:31:30 AM
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Hello all,
I've been following this because I've been less than active soaring pilot lately. Flying electrics is a close as I get these days. Its hard to beat the convenience over haling out a winch or even hi-start for a mid week practice session or a couple of free hours after the soccer games.
A few folks have mention some sort of low tech limited class, but there always seems to be a caveat like no AVAs or 2m Manti. Why not take this idea it to the extreme and have a one design event? A 2/3ch woodie isn't going to cost much to put in the air if that's what people want. If these higher end planes are already popular, there might be interest to support an event there as well. Either way it would be (mostly) pilot skill. Just a thought.
Cheers,
Bob M |
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mikel
106 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 10:15:16 AM
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Give some of the "moldie" guys a break. Some of them buy them because that is the only way they would have enough time to get a sailplane in the air. If you just want to fly, then you get a model as close to ARF as possible.
Of course, they are all spoiled by the years past when the exchange rate was good and skilled labor in eastern europe was cheap. So unfortunately, the cost of a moldie today is really closer to $1000. Everyone has thier own priorities.
For the cost of travel, look at how many people do things like play golf. A day of golf can be more expensive than a contest and a lot more frustrating. Plus you need that new $500 driver.....
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mikel
106 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 10:21:52 AM
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For those clubs out there who think a RES or 2M contest would be better, please send a representative to the End of Season contest on Saturday so that you can get your RES contest added to the ESL contest schedule. The only soaring contests that are separated by the ESL rules are the HLG contests.
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tbroeski
24 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 10:28:33 AM
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The muddy stuff is taken care of by the fact that the top 5 each year - no more - no less- compete the following year as masters. This is basically a trophy and honor thing. They will have fewer glue mixing trays, but will be on the ESL Soaring Cup for life (I will gladly donate a really nice one). The goal then, for the top experts, is to be in the top 5 overall. Everything else as far as scoring, how you move up from Sportsman, etc. stays the same. There's no compelxity and no confusion. Clubs won't be buying extra trophies and won't be spending $35 - $45 on someone's glue mixing tray. Everyone still flies with the same group of people, no matter what class they compete for trophies in. You can compare yourself to anyone you wish. If a club wants to have an RES category like CASA does, your score still counts the same toward ESL points the same as it does now. I did notice that the RES guys were left off of the CASA scores that are posted. They should be in either expert (Like Stew)or Sportsman or even Master if Mike wants to fly his bubble dancer - no matter what plane they fly or what trophies are given out.
Tom B
quote:
Originally posted by jsteifel
I also agree on the classes. Another club I belong to had the masters, expert and sportmen. And then it became a matter of the expert class being dominated. Then sportsman who really should be sportsman were moved up to expert. And some experts who should be masters stayed at expert... So it starts getting muddy.
Jeff Steifel
T&G
32 Mount View Dr
Afton, VA 22920
540 943-3356 |
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jsteifel
40 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 10:59:04 AM
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So we are back to the same problem in 1 year. The numbers are off. And lets say you are an expert and score a season ending third place. Next year you are back with the masters... Also the expert class doesn't get new blood because the sportsman don't score enough.. Then the expert class is smaller and the next top five move up...
It actually is more complicated than that... I just don't feel like typing a whole disertation.
If we break up the classes and make a masters ,expert and sportsman and it doesn't attract anyone.. we have a bigger problem... not enough competitors to have a real competition in class.
It happened in sportsman I believe a couple of times this year.
And in expert once.
BTW who in expert now stays in expert. And who moves to masters (aside from the obvious).
My experience with the results of the 3 classes in NJSS indicates that it only works for one season. After that you are back to normal, unless you are getting a lot of new blood.
quote:
Originally posted by tbroeski
The muddy stuff is taken care of by the fact that the top 5 each year - no more - no less- compete the following year as masters. This is basically a trophy and honor thing. They will have fewer glue mixing trays, but will be on the ESL Soaring Cup for life (I will gladly donate a really nice one). The goal then, for the top experts, is to be in the top 5 overall. Everything else as far as scoring, how you move up from Sportsman, etc. stays the same. There's no compelxity and no confusion. Clubs won't be buying extra trophies and won't be spending $35 - $45 on someone's glue mixing tray. Everyone still flies with the same group of people, no matter what class they compete for trophies in. You can compare yourself to anyone you wish. If a club wants to have an RES category like CASA does, your score still counts the same toward ESL points the same as it does now. I did notice that the RES guys were left off of the CASA scores that are posted. They should be in either expert (Like Stew)or Sportsman or even Master if Mike wants to fly his bubble dancer - no matter what plane they fly or what trophies are given out.
Tom B
quote:
Originally posted by jsteifel
I also agree on the classes. Another club I belong to had the masters, expert and sportmen. And then it became a matter of the expert class being dominated. Then sportsman who really should be sportsman were moved up to expert. And some experts who should be masters stayed at expert... So it starts getting muddy.
Jeff Steifel
T&G
32 Mount View Dr
Afton, VA 22920
540 943-3356
Jeff Steifel |
Edited by - jsteifel on 09/22/2005 11:39:17 AM |
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kiesling
45 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 11:03:10 AM
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Hi all,
This is a really complex topic and we will not be able to please everyone.
I think there are two problems that need to be addressed.
1) How do we get existing modelers into soaring or back into soaring.
2) How do we get non modelers interested.
Both issues I think have basically the same solution.
I think it mostly comes down to active promotion of the contest. For existing modelers, forums like RC groups
is a good way to talk up a contest and generate interest. Maybe spice up the contest a bit with a barbeque or
some kind of after contest fun fly. Spicing up the tasks themselves may also generate interest. I know the Ohio guys
love their seeded man on man. This may be something to try to generate interest. But the real key is to talk it up on
RC groups.
For the non modelers, advertisements in the local papers upcoming events section would be a good start. I think something with
an eye catching picture, directions to the field and start/finish times etc. They key to this working is to having a dedicated
PR guy at the field to talk to spectators when they do show up to explain to them what is going on. Perhaps even having a model
they could try with a buddy box system.
Now of course what I am suggesting requires effort. Many of us are spread thin as it is. With the poor economy people are working
more hours. So between work and family committments they may only have time to do one thing to help with their club contest.
This I think worked in the past, since clubs had more than a few members helping run a contest. I remember when CASA had 10+ people
working their contest. Now they are down to about 5. This doesn't leave much help to run a big PR effort.
In the past it has been the ESL's position to leave the contest details up to the club. This included the PR efforts.
With the waning active soaring members in clubs, perhaps it is time to change this and have a dedicated ESL PR officer(s) to actively
promote the contests on the ESL circuit? Some of the ESL contests are migrating towards being like the ESL Open which is run by
the contestants and not a local club. Perhaps it is time to make this the standard model to help breath life into the contests
until the clubs can generate critical mass?
I think this is something worth discussing at the ESL annual meeting.
Tom |
Edited by - kiesling on 09/22/2005 11:05:09 AM |
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jsteifel
40 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 11:37:44 AM
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I would like to talk about things that we can change...
easily...
First.
Lack of timers. I am upset by the fact that people have left a contest because they couldn't find a timer.
I think we can easily address this issue.
I think the CD's need to at the pilots meeting ask at the pilots meeting if anyone hasn't got a timer to see him..
It would make it easier since the CD generally know everyone and the person not paired off probably doesn't know anyone. It's a shame to have someone turn around and leave because they were too shy or didn't know anyone.
Or LISF has been having experts time for sportsman and sportsman time for experts... it works well in their MOM format. Especially since you are not getting the same timer and it give the sportsman a real chance to learn.
I have tried giving some of the sportsman tips while flying. Some might be intimidated but they shouldn't be it was designed to be a learning tool and most of us foster it. Most of the experts don't need a timer to find lift, only to spot other planes if they are in trouble. Although an expert timer may be able to provide more than just the spotting of planes to the sportsman fliers.. making for a better day for some sportsman.
Jeff Steifel |
Edited by - jsteifel on 09/22/2005 11:47:02 AM |
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jsteifel
40 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 11:51:31 AM
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I think Tom has a point about advertising.
I agree RCSE is a good place to start. There is no reason we can't use the medium to promote it. OVSS is growing and if you notice they are posting.
Also ESL talk needs to be used to remind people that a contest is coming. I think the electronic medium has cost us. In the past we got flyers and it had printed directions and served as a reminder to register and also get a motel. I have had problems with some of the websites... getting directions has been very difficult at times. Some sites are too complicated...
Also without the printed medium some guys probably just forget about it.
I sent out the CASA email and was told by 2 people they forgot to register and didn't realize it was coming up.
So it is definetly important to get the word out.
More PR in the news or local small papers... not the big ones (which are harder to aquire)... Get out the word a month in advance so they can watch the contest and possibly get some interest.
Jeff Steifel |
Edited by - jsteifel on 09/22/2005 11:55:40 AM |
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aeajr
477 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 1:46:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jsteifel
LISF has been having experts time for sportsman and sportsman time for experts... it works well in their MOM format. Especially since you are not getting the same timer and it give the sportsman a real chance to learn.
I have tried giving some of the sportsman tips while flying. Some might be intimidated but they shouldn't be it was designed to be a learning tool and most of us foster it. Most of the experts don't need a timer to find lift, only to spot other planes if they are in trouble. Although an expert timer may be able to provide more than just the spotting of planes to the sportsman fliers.. making for a better day for some sportsman.
Jeff Steifel
Jeff,
I didn't know this was not the standard process.
As a fairly new flyer, one of the reasons I keep coming back to compete is the advice and coaching I have gotten from the experts.
This is an opportunity to learn from the best. Where else am I going to get two days of expert coaching.
That is how it is at the ESL events at LISF. The experts timing for the sportsman is the best learning experience one could possibly hope for. If not for this, then I might not even fly. I won't win and I won't even place, so why compete?
Anker, Jose, Phil, Mike, Paul, Louis, Tony, Tom, Mark and others have each timed for me and given me so much help and good advice. And timing for them is an eduction all by itself. Seeing them squeeze 5 minutes out of nothing is like watching magic. This is an inspiration that someday I might learn to do THAT!
At the last ESL LISF event we had one new flyer with a foamy sailplane. He had only been flying for a few months. At first people chuckled, but the experts embraced his willingness to try. After the experts started working with him he was making good times and landing points too; with a foamy! Fantastic!
If you are not doing this at other fields, I strongly encourage you to adopt this format. from the point of view of the newer flyer, it breaks down the wall between expert and sportsman. It opens communication and builds relationships that will help build the ESL and interest in soaring.
If the experts are not opposed to this format, I think it could be a huge builder of interest in the ESL events for new flyers if you were to adopt it at all events.
Best regards,
Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums
Long Island Silent Flyers |
Edited by - aeajr on 09/22/2005 1:50:14 PM |
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F3jeb
103 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 1:56:53 PM
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Initially, I had concerns about a master’s class, since it seamed just another way of getting the top pilots out of the way just to make room for someone else to get a trophy, but reading Josh’s proposal it does create some incentive for everyone, by creating a class which is “Ultra-hard” to enter. This class would appeal to those who are interested in competing at a national and FAI level, those achieving this class understand and are willing to make the necessary sacrifices, and I am not saying the rest of us don’t work hard at it, we just can’t make this level of commitment for XYZ reasons. Without the top FAI ESL pilots we are still a competitive bunch. Any body can go to the NATS and a FAI qualifying contest, but not everyone understand what it takes to be at the top, at the ESL we do understand, because we fly with them all the time, and that is a bonus.
I think the ESL could do a bit more for those in this special class, Masters, than just a hand shake or a plaque, I think we should help them represent us at the national/FAI level, I am sure they could come up with a bunch of stuff we can do, donate, and even sponsor them.
This structure could revitalize the circuit with out penalizing those at the top, by putting them to pasture.
Making this change alone would not draw more people into the ESL, we need to let others know we want them back flying and we want new pilots, so I have to agree with Tom where we need someone dedicated and with the skills necessary to take on our PR efforts.
Jose
quote:
Good afternoon,
Just adding some other things to consider along the SC2 compared to ESL contests, from what I gathered from talking with Daryl P., basically, what we know as the "ESL" in terms of numbers of clubs/flyers/etc, which covers
8 states and hundreds (if not thousands) of miles, is contained within about 100 miles (or less) in Southern CA. Don't know how to explain that, must be the weather or something. Would be kind of neat to hit 20 contests and not put more than 1,000 miles on the car ;-).
Regarding the masters class stuff, I can see it two ways. One way is that if two classes are done right, you don't need a third. We have again moved everyone who competes regularly into Expert class (despite the advancement point strategy implemented back in the mid-90s). Pilots get "advanced" to Expert class as a result of the shrinking overall #s of competitors and now Expert class has a very wide range of talent. The wide range of talent results in a situation where only the same few pilots are ever recognized and congratulated, which is probably a spiraling effect. Moving 3 or 5 flyers to Masters class could enable more flyers to be recognized when they have a good day, which could boost participation.
The idea of a trophy-less Masters class could work Ok. Perhaps just reading the scores of the top-3 Masters along with a hand-shake would be good enough (though I would probably need to bring some old plaques along for my sons since they really like that kind of stuff). I would also like to suggest that the number of pilots in Masters Class be limited, being able to get into Masters Class would be somewhat of an award on its own. Potential criteria to be a "ESL Master" could be winning what is now known as Expert class for a year in the last 5 or 10 years, or in the top-3 in Expert class for 3 of 5 years, or winning the NATS or being on a F3?
team. Would not want to have another discussion about Ultra-Grand-Master class in a few years ;-).
Thanks, Josh.
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Edited by - F3jeb on 09/22/2005 1:59:18 PM |
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fprintf
9 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 9:22:31 PM
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I'll just add my 2 cents. I found getting a timer to be really a daunting experience when I came to LISF I last year. It seemed everyone knew everyone else, and all the CRRC guys were already paired up. So I yelled for help and eventually Jeff Steifel and someone else helped me out. Plus John Hauff peddled the winch for me. But I cannot imagine the daunting experience of seeking out a timer would put anyone off coming to an ESL contest... I think it is just lower participation in soaring contests at the moment. I talk to the local CT guys and they have seen ebbs and flows over the years, with the beginning of this year about as busy with glider fliers as they have seen it in many years. In fact we have at least 3 new F3b fliers practicing with Dennis Phelan on a regular basis in Northern CT... they'd be perfect additions to the ESL contest.
So the question is, how do you reach these new enthusiasts? As was already suggested, RCGroups may be one of they keys. All of the new local guys found out about our field from the Internet and eventually made it onto RCGroups.
As for me not participating in ESL this year, for whatever reason family commitments expanded as the kids got a bit older (9 and 7) and an interest in returning to racing sailboats got in the way this season. Eventually I'll get back on track, hopefully without too much skill I have learned from all you experts (at LISF and several Brattleboro club contests) the past few years slipping away. BTW, if *anyone* thinks flying sailplanes is a commitment, just take a visit to a yacht club and see what a 14' Laser ready to race will cost you... almost $5,000! This hobby is cheap in comparison! :) |
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Dave Walter
18 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 11:11:32 PM
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Speaking of CT... why isn't there an ESL event in Connecticut? I know this is a little off-topic, but it seems like CT would be a great location for a contest. It would be 2 hours closer than CRRC for the southerners, but still close enough for NH, VT, and ME people. There's the Simsbury competition I went to a few times, but it wasn't too serious, and the 3 classes (2M, Std, Open) meant only 3 flights in a class. Jim Bonk took a shot at hosting an ESL event, but it sort of died in child birth.
The cost of attending a competition goes way down if you remove the hotel expenses. And, it's reasonable to attend just one day. Better one than none. I really wish I could go to one or two events where I didn't have to kill an entire weekend, but still got my flying in. So, where are all those F3B guys in Northern CT? |
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Low contest turnout
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